This is a continuation of a controversial post published yesterday. If you haven't already, please go to the first post to learn the intention behind creating this post and the first half of the questions for the panel. Feel free to join in the discussion below with your own respectful viewpoints!
As a refresher, here are the lovely ladies on the panel!
Carla - blogger at "Tiny Angry Crafts" | Nora - blogger at "Nora Finds" | Daffny - blogger at "A Vintage Nerd" | Angelique Noire - pinup model | Candace - pinup model
Since you've already read the background info for this pair of controversial posts, let's get back to the questions!
Does there seem to be a common theme of why others of your race don't wear vintage? (This may also tie into the culture you identify with, which is often connected to race. Also, maybe there isn't a common theme! That's okay to say, too!)
Angelique: There are many Black people that wear vintage or styles based on the 1940s/50s. They don't typically frequent events catering to the vintage community, but that doesn't mean they are non-existent...If you look, you can see the influence of classic 40s/50s style being interpreted in a modern way by many Black women. It's just a matter of how you interpret their style. For example, when you see a Caucasian woman wearing a turban, midi skirt, a button down blouse with cat eyeliner and red lips, many can see the influence of a popular 1940s/50s fashion style. You see the exact same style on a Black women, people automatically think she is doing something solely based on African influence because of the turban. I have so many Black girls and women tell me that I am their inspiration because they adore the style.
Candace: Two words: Not cool. It’s okay to like and listen to Beyonce and Nikki Minaj, it’s okay to listen to R&B and hip-hop but don’t you dare wear seam-stockings and say how much you love Dita von Teese and Dean Martin. Those two don’t mix. I think it has to do with not being brave enough to be who you are. I love artists like Erykah Badu, Janelle Monae, and India.Arie they are neo-soul R&B singers, and are brave enough to wear their natural hair and to be fully clothed and show talent and not skin. I like women like that. Unfortunately, mainstream has dominated so much so that if you wear vintage or want to you get frowned upon. Especially, for the younger girls they find it hard to and sacrifice who they are and want to be because of looks and bad mouthing. When has liking James Mason and Elvis ever been a crime? Why is it horrible to be classy and leave mystery behind?
Carla: I've asked some of my friends why don't they want to dress vintage, and the response is usually either "I don't see anyone who looks like me doing it." , "I don't want to get teased " "Oh, my people didn't dress nice back then." And I've seen some people posting on sites 'Oh white kids who emulate that style are harkening a caricature of the past, and are erasing the struggles of PoC.'
Nora: What we mainly call vintage pieces are of Western style, but vintage actually encompasses a whole bunch of historical pieces whether they are vintage batik, vintage kimono, or vintage cheongsams. But what we wear nowadays are mostly American/European vintage so a lot of minorities don't feel like they can relate. My grandma grew up in Indonesia under Dutch colonization so she wore the kind of vintage we wear now. But if you are from mainland China I can understand that you don't "get" vintage. Also, Chinese people (or maybe all Asians) have this believe that new is always better, so they tend to not like the idea of wearing second hand clothes. I think it's because vintage clothing reminds them of the past, which in my culture is usually something we don't like to talk about. We Chinese like to move on with things and improve ourselves, so past sometimes just feels like something that holds you back.
Daffny: I find those within the Latino culture here in New York think its cool what I do and do not judge me for it at all.
Are there elements of the vintage community that are, at the least, not friendly toward people of color or, at the worst, just plain insulting? What are they? If you could, how would you change these things? (Meaning, how would you prefer these situations be handled?)
Nora: I personally do not think there are things that are insulting. But I'm probably not easily insulted. Heck, it's a think line between appreciate a culture and adopting it as a costume. What about this year's Met Gala?! Is it offensive to wear chopsticks in your hair or wear cheongsams?! I don't think any one person can represent a whole racial group to say what's offensive and what's not. Obviously Edwardian pieces are less minority friendly because they simply aren't a part of our history, but the Western fashion did make its way to other countries pretty early in the 1920s (like mogas or Japanese flappers).
Candace: There have been a few guys on my FB page (Black Pinup Models) that have said some down right vile things that I had to delete and ban. Some see black women as exotic creatures and that’s it, no brains, no personality, I had to get rid of them as well. We’re more than that.
Carla: I haven't personally experienced this, but I've heard stories of Black people being treated rudely at rockabilly festivals. I find this entire situation very odd, considering rockabilly was a subset of rock and roll, which has roots in African American blues music.
Angelique: I think it is downright insulting when people wear clothing and/accessories with the Confederate Flag. Either they are wearing it because they are absolutely ignorant of the hate and racism it was associated with, or these individual straight up could care less about exercising empathy. Also what I mentioned about lack of diversity in publications, and photographers who choose to not photograph Black women is also insulting.
Daffny: I don't think the vintage community is unfriendly to anyone who is different. We have black women, gay women, disabled women like me and everyone is quite friendly and sweet. Its one of the reasons I love this community so much.
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| Daffny & her lovely kids - source |
How would you encourage other people of color in embracing their own personal style?
Daffny: I would encourage someone from my culture to embrace the beauty and the history of the past and to have fun with it. I would tell them to add their own dash of salsa to the mix and make it dazzle!
Nora: I would encourage them to do some research on their own history, on other people's history, and just generally on fashion history to find what they like and what they don't. I don't identify myself with just one racial/cultural group so I don't feel like I need to limit myself on wearing only one type of clothing. I would encourage people to find their own style whether or not that is vintage.
Candace: One of my favorite lines from a song from my favorite bands, Halestorm has a song “Sick Individual” the chorus says, “I’m doing thing called whatever the f**k I want…” I love that attitude… [but] It is hard to do because growing up we’re told what to say and do and not do certain things because we’ll appear as something to others and so on. But it gets tiring, and you get fed up with so you have to have that attitude...I’ve been adapting that attitude because I’m tired with trying to please everyone, it’s exhausting. I think everyone should live by that. If wearing seam stocking and cat eyeliner makes you feel better, happier, prettier go ahead and do it. Why should you sacrifice your happiness for someone else? I will not sacrifice my polka dots and pearls for anyone!
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| Candace |
What practical things can members of the white majority do to support other races in the vintage community?
Nora: I don't think there is any discrimination to be honest. I always feel like people appreciate my style and myself and don't think I'm wearing vintage to imitate white people or I'm simply costuming. I think the most important thing is to treat everyone the same way. Give compliments and be genuine - when someone looks lovely, then tell them but don't be patronising or don't sound surprised.
Daffny: I think those who aren't from other cultures just make sure that they are welcoming and friendly to anyone who comes into the community irregardless of their culture. You cannot go wrong by being nice!
Candace: Just keep supporting. I have such wonderful supporters who aren’t black quite a few of them are white believe it or not and I’m very happy. I was a little worried I felt like I would be alienating them with the name Black Pinups, but I think most of them are like me, they like it because it’s pinup, it’s a great product/photo and they want to see me and others do well.
Carla: Feature more PoC of the eras in beauty posts and the like. (I'm working on this during the summer) Talk to PoC who dress vintage, and compliment their style.
What other things do you feel need to be said pertaining to this issue? Is there anything else that could help readers better grasp your experience?
Daffny: I think it is important to know that not all Latinos in America are Mexican. The Mexican culture is a beautiful one but we also come from Europe, South and Central America, and the Caribbean. We come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. We have blonde hair and red hair, we come tall/slender and round/curvy, with freckles, with dark skin and pale skin. Don't judge a book by its cover. You never know who may be and so therefore I encourage you to just ask.
Candace: I hope that people will be more open if they’re not towards black history especially in the entertainment industry. I had a post of black history female pioneers and I was happy to see how many of my white followers were interested in learning, it was awesome. I’m glad more people are wanting to learn more. I love to learn about any history not just mine but everyone’s so I’m hoping it continues.
For more information on Asian culture & vintage, check out Nora's more in-depth post, "Why Don't Asians Wear Vintage?"